Friday, November 09, 2007

Reaching Out & Touching Our Souls Genuinely - Jenny

Our neighbour requested for prayers to help bring back her husband’s good health. As she gracefully moved her hijab just enough for me to see the seriousness of her plight, I was struck with the image of determination and confidence in the action taken. Desperation was not outlined on her face and neither was sadness. Instinctively still, I touched her hand to comfort her, and knowing what it meant, she promptly affirmed my swift assessment. It is faith she said that equipped her with courage; tread the path of positivities, leaving no room for sadness. Needless to say, she meant faith in God, who she respectfully addressed quite differently as I and those in my religion would. Her faith in Him has become more pronounced each day I speak to her. At 36, hard-working, very much a family man, her husband is afflicted with lung cancer with no obvious cause for acquiring it. He is also a father of three very young sons, all years below the radar of puberty. As the wife entrusted us to help them in their suffering through our prayers, I was in turn grateful and elated for the respect and recognition she has shown for my religion, my faith; an acknowledgment sincere enough to touch their very lives. It moved me to know that in her spiritual beliefs we are favourably included despite some differences in sacred doctrine and religious practices; that even in prior normal days there was never a need for dogmatic assertions, from us or her, in order to prove who are within the loving embrace of God and who has the right religion. The converging forces of truly and simultaneously understanding religion and the physical man have united us in one faith.

We assured her of our prayers and we went further to offer a Holy Mass for her husband’s full recovery. In the past, I have sought the merits of this sacred rite for various personal and neighbourly intentions. However, I have never offered one for anybody outside of my religion. Not for even a second did this reality come to mind as we planned for this ultimate spiritual offering and supplication. I always believe that God is for everyone. When our parish priest saw the name of our sick neighbour during the scheduling of the mass, he fixated an eye line with me, without a smile I should add, as if to confirm, while he mentioned in one word, my neighbour’s spiritual background. I thought, “Oh-oh, this is the part where an orchestra plays an overture”. He quickly added, perhaps alerted by my emerging defensive look, that we are all children of God and my request for the Holy Mass on my neighbour’s behalf was most welcomed, as was the presence during the mass, of my sick neighbour or any of his family members, relatives and friends. He praised my intentions, though obviously not expecting the inconsistency just rendered. With this, and like music with different notes and movements, the initial staccato of doubts and uneasiness that played because of the difference in religion so obviously spelled out, turned into sentiments with the artistry of etudes. There was a distinct sense of fulfillment, relief and resolve for what I believe religion should stand for and how God should be portrayed.

I was reminded of a time I was told that mere entry to a church of another religion was a sin. I have of course dismissed this, countless summers ago, as a product of misinterpretation, of somebody lost in translation, ignorance and yes, perhaps, judgmental people. My mind went on and had “re-runs” of the sad and unfortunate moments I learned and read about, despite pure intentions by some, or most, during the age of Conquistadores and the Crusades.

Similarly, I couldn’t help but look back to a morass of a discussion I had with a co-worker who said, or rather pontificated, that Eternal Salvation is not possible without reading the Holy Bible. It made me regret for opting a much-needed 15-minute break in the comforts of the employees’ lounging room instead of sticking it out with spreadsheets, formulae, analysis, decisions and reports yet to be made. The statement, intended to be understood literally, prompted my thoughts to trickle fast like blocks in an old Nintendo game: The poor illiterates then! What about a tired mother who procreated and has a good number of them taking the time she could have devoted to the Bible? What will happen to the blind who has no access to the Braille system or who is in a predicament where no one can read for him? Would knowledge of avoiding sin and actions indicative of this suffice for a dying man? What happens to a good man who takes to heart God’s commandments, but does not read the Bible? Would God be so unforgiving? I vocalized these to my disappointment. She went on questioning the role of the Pope and the presence of leaders, and kings and what future holds for them. Pardon me, but as the discussion transformed into something like a political debate gone awry, I left with no formality, lest I actually sin. I saw others swing their heads left and right. I wondered how they took her stance, or mine. One thing was certain though-----it was a day minus 15 minutes, that I enjoyed working with figures, spreadsheets and financial analysis.

Fleetingly, but vividly, a part of my brain presented me with last summer’s picnic with friends and acquaintances. The conversation around the table of food was soothing to the digestive process, though it hopped from one topic to another, landing and stagnated for a quite while on a participant who declared that anybody who does not believe in Christ can not attain Eternal Salvation. The spontaneity surprised me; the fervency was transparent; grasping the moment to proselytize perhaps, déjà vu. I immediately checked her literal intentions. Indeed, it was so. I believe in Christ and what He represents, but I have to speak up, I thought, before I miss a chance and forever disfavour those who I know try their very best to live decently, responsibly and harmoniously with others, without even believing in God or knowing the details about Christ; there is something still lacking in them, I know; but who is perfect and what human should judge? Essentially, however, there is awareness in them of what is good, why it is important and how to practice it. I have to speak up, lest those who believe in Christ, but sin blatantly anyway, would find haven in such a statement, especially if they have been saturated with a rationalization that because only God can be perfect and no human is, their indiscretions can find excuse in a semblance of correctness or validity they condition themselves to believe. Lastly, but surely not the least, I have to speak up because Christ did not spread the Word in such a manner; because I know God loves us all and for this, He offers Salvation in different ways, which no creature of His can likely comprehend. So I asked with silence as a reply, “How does God treat his creature who lives like Christ without even knowing Him?” Man is not born evil and his soul is from God and the goodness in him can be fostered in so many ways. I went on, “Is it more literally correct to say that only God knows who will attain Eternal Salvation? There are guides towards this, but who’s to say that one is actually honest and sincere, or not, in practicing these? Righteous or not, can we really be absolutely certain with all our human definitive statements as to who attains Eternal Life?” The moment of discourse was ended by another who softly uttered that on the Last Day, what matters are the actions we’ve taken. Might I add that perhaps, just perhaps, what we did not take as well? Gospel according to St. Mark: 10, 26-27: “Who can be saved?” “Jesus said: “With men, it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”

The Son of God did not go about intimidating people or sowing fear. His words were comforting; his approach, humble and understanding, and these attracted people, followers. He welcomed everybody. He presented the truth on how to live and be enlightened in a manner that did not stigmatize, segregate, antagonize or polarize.

There are some evangelizing people with pure intentions and they are admirable. At times however, they are overshadowed by others who have mixed intentions and are found to be self-serving; this flows into the tone of their speech and body language. To these individuals, the ripples on how they go about handling their religion may go beyond their immediate awareness and may seem utterly benign to them. Unfortunately, for discerning listeners, observers, no élan can cover such flaw and the entire effort becomes void of true enlightenment. Rather, it develops into a proselytizing endeavour that likely forms a vexation to the physical nature of man, leaving his soul wanting.

As our souls are delicate and sacred, so are the spiritual motivations and religious disciplines that feed and nurture them; it doesn’t matter what sacred background these come from. It is with legitimate spiritual knowledge, sincere and unselfish intentions, care, humility, comforting words and good examples that interpreters of all religions and of God should approach the complexities of the physicality of man in order to reach and touch his soul genuinely.

45 comments:

Me said...

I'll say Amen to your article Ms.Jenny.

Time to reflect.

Anonymous said...

Well taken, but...

Anonymous said...

Always love to read Jenny's articles. Inspiring, Moving, touching.

more of Jenny's literary pieces.

Anonymous said...

One can not help but reflects one's spiritual strength and faith.
thank you Jenny for a loving and moving affirmation of faith.

Anonymous said...

Jenny, I really must know you at least in emails.

Thank you so much.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand this JJ. what's all the "but..." for.

Anonymous said...

great artcle.

Anonymous said...

yes, I want that JJ to complete his unfinished comment.

Anonymous said...

" I am the Truth, the Way and the Life. Nobody comes to the Father except through Me".

Anonymous said...

Amen!

Anonymous said...

" Iam the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me,even though they die like everyone else will live again. They are given eternal life for believing in me and will never perish."

First and foremost requisite for salvation is to know,believe in Jesus Christ per the New Testament.
Being a good person and doing good works are merely secondary, and if you a Christian believer, irrelevant to salvation.

Anonymous said...

Hmmmm...

Anonymous said...

There is more to just the literal meaning of passages in the Holy Bible, both the Old and the New testament. Several may seem inconsistent with others if we limit ourselves to the literal meaning rather than the spiritual message being imparted to us. As far as how to live properly in this world is concerned, the Ten Commandments, divided mainly into two parts (love of God and love of neighbour), simplify what may seem vague and contradicting to us in the Holy Bible. Nonetheless, no human can put a limit to God’s love. To do so will be empty of humility, ostracizing others and placing oneself above Him.

No matter what our colour, shape of eyes and noses are, we are all children of God. He is our Creator and our limitations are known to Him, from the very beginning. Nothing is secret to Him; he knows the past, present and the future. He knows the earth will be inhabited with so many people with countless differences in all aspects of life, genetic or not. Given such supreme knowledge, would God limit his forgiveness and love to certain groups or more so, to Christians alone? Today, Nov. 20, 2007, the earth has roughly 6,632,398,125 human creatures. Christians are about 33% of these, or about 2,188,691,381; the rest, 67% or 4,443,706,744 are therefore, supposed to be non-Christians. God knows this is going to happen and there are parts of the world that would be difficult to trek in order to spread Christianity. Could we just say, “Too bad” to them? Is it safe to imagine that God’s home has a sign at its door, “For Christians Only”(Christians as followers of the Person, that is, Son of God)? Would God really want only 33%?

Within my own limitations, I believe Jesus Christ is not only the Son of God, but also the Good that man does. God the Father sent Him, the Person, to us, to show us how to live now and in the future; to save us from our manifold sins and certainly, to show how much He loves us. Christ represents, or is actually the Harmony, the Decency, the Love of our neighbour and the Respect for the resources God provided us, and when we do all these we show our love to God. When we, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or otherwise, fail to do these good things, there is no Christ in us; we fail to build that Path that should connect us to God. Indeed, “Nobody goes to the Father except through Christ”, which I also interpret as “through Good things.” To know and believe in Christ, is not limited to just the literal meaning of “know” and “believe”; it is also doing what He is, the Good that God expects us to have and exemplify, Christians or not. Good, good individuals and good things are never secondary. It is more difficult to infuse the rationale of Good to somebody who is saturated with evil work….. than with newborns already breathing with the good souls God has generously given without discrimination.

Anonymous said...

Any avid Bible reader of any Christian denomination, Catholic or not believes Jesus alone is the key to salvation. I don't wish to presume to know any rationale explanations,nor do I know what will happen to the good billions of non-Christians, but the Word of the Lord, the Bible said so. As a Christian, I don't wish to argue with it.

Anonymous said...

it is not really to argue, or to assume to have the true knowledge or rationale, the way I understand jenny’s article and some comments. the point I see is attempting to understand and “reach out” to other people in a world full of divisions and segregations so that peace and harmony becomes workable within our limitations, including jenny’s. to judge others because of our differences and putting ourselves above others because of certain beliefs is the source of misunderstandings and quarrels. it is cold & selfish of a person to just think of salvation for himself or herself alone without trying to understand others.

Anonymous said...

Reaching out, a sense of humanity,
don't judge anyone, love your enemies are all part of being a Christian. All these however are not the key to salvation if you are a Christian. You may have all of them, the purity and goodness of the heart but if you reject Jesus Christ, you will not be saved so said the word of the Lord. Sorry, but harmony and love and other goodies are irrelevant when it comes to eternal salvation

Anonymous said...

To Matthew and Mark:
Nobody is rejecting Christ and there is no talk about not accepting Him. In fact, good deeds and sacrifice describe Him too and when we do exactly just that, I don’t see any rejection of Him. We embrace Him when we do good things. The whole discussion is also about our other brothers here on earth who are performing good deeds without knowledge, partial or whole, of Christ---would God not consider them into His Kingdom, taking into account their good work and that this world has numerous limitations? Consider too that there are those who believe in Christ, but like Jenny stated in her article, “sin blatantly anyway”. Do you think God would ignore such behavior just because they are believers of the existence of Christ? How can one be a true believer of Christ and at the same time disregard love, harmony and other good things when these are parts of Christ’s teachings? What you are trying to say is that you can be terribly bad and sinful and still attain Eternal Salvation simply because you believe in the existence of Jesus Christ; “Love, harmony and other goodies-----irrelevant to Eternal Salvation?” I would not want to say the opposite of these quoted words.

Anonymous said...

You are not listening Shocked. Repeat, repeat, again and again.
It's not me who said it but the New Testament that the only Way to Salvation is Jesus Christ. You may argue with that till you turn blue but that's the Christian faith. What happen to your goodies and billions of good goody Bhuddist and Shintoists,etc., etc.? I don't know. The Word of the Lord remains the foundation of faith and Salvation, regardless of your concept of God, but yours is not the Holy Bible.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

To Samaritan and Simple Believer and Mark, Matthew and Luke:

I am no fanatic. No need to call anybody fanatic because it sounds so hostile. Take it easy. I take religion with an open mind and with great consideration for God’s love and mercy for everyone, no bias. I respect the disciplines of other religions which promote peace, respect, harmony, humility and recognizes the sacredness of all human rights. It doesn’t mean that I am changing my religion. I was just commenting on Matthew and Mark’s opinion that “love, harmony and other goodies are irrelevant to Eternal Salvation” because I have not read this line in the Bible and I find it really quite contradicting to several concepts in Christian teachings. I do read the Holy Bible. I believe in Jenny’s article, based on your comment, you do too, and I hope I got it right that she meant that we should try to consider too, not “stigmatize” or judge those who are doing good work, but are not within the Christian denomination because nothing is impossible with God, therefore Eternal Salvation is not impossible with Him granting It to anyone He deems qualified and nobody knows what is in His mind. And Samaritan, you just supported Jenny’s article by putting your neighbors as examples. It is exactly what I wanted to point out also to Matthew and Mark. Please read my comment again. I am also confident that Simple Believer is in the same line as us. By the tone of Mark, Matthew and Luke, he is angry especially with an indirect wish for me “to turn blue” and the way he referred to other people of other religions and the “goodies”. I hope he calms down and be a good messenger of his faith.

God bless everyone! May we be enlightened and like Christ, welcome everybody. Check out the story of Zacchaeus, the Publican, if possible.

Chill!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the last comment.

But I have to point out that there are a lot of self-righteous Christians who still believe that they are the only ones who are destined for an eternal salvation.
They call the other religion the ‘non believers’.

This overzealous group segregate themselves & would not associate w/ ‘non believers’.
If they can put a sign at their doors “CHRISTIANS ONLY” they would.

This reminds me before the Berlin Wall was knocked down, US military men were not allowed in some German restaurants. A sign at the door reads “NO GI’s.”

In retrospect during Hitler’s time Jews were not allowed in most if not all in German public places. The sign reads “NO JEWS”.

Would HOLOCAUST been prevented if the Catholic Church interferred STRONGLY considering that Germany is a Catholic country?

So tell me your religion & I’ll tell you who you are.

Anonymous said...

Details of Catholic or Christian support to anti-Semitic Germany are mentally and spiritually challenging and agonizing, therefore significantly astounding given the disciplines and doctrines that support such religious backgrounds. The components of this historic embarrassment even overshadowed the sacrifices of their own members who opposed such distorted nationalization propaganda.

Pope John Paul II had since apologized to the Jews, a sign of humility, a sign of divine, yet basically human, sublime understanding. He had also done the same for other ill-supported spiritual motivations promoted in the old ages. He personally visited and forgave his unsuccessful, would-be assassin, who is not within the religion he heads.

Yet, there seems to be more modern squabbling based mainly on religious beliefs among Christians than between Jews and Christians, or solely Catholics and Jews; between other religions and Christians.

With old divides in religion and other aspects of life being infused with the modern challenges, I think there is a need to narrow down or eliminate whatever keeps us all apart and feuding. It may be easier said than done; but, calm, open-mindedness and understanding of man’s nature and what God has given him have all good merits. This does not mean that we should avoid discussing religion, or politics, or any topic for that matter; for what good is the mental capacity and free will God has bestowed upon man.

“It is by teaching that we teach ourselves, by relating that we observe, by affirming that we examine, by showing that we look, by writing that we think, by pumping that we draw water into the well.”--- Henri Frederic Amiel

Anonymous said...

One of my favorite quotes by
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"Our lives begin to end when we become silent of the things that matter."

Anonymous said...

If anybody who is good, peaceful, harmonious and those with deep sense of humanity which may include atheists and all those who never believed in God can go to heaven after death, does it follow that faith or belief or religion or the Bible will not be necessary to eternal salvation?
You can't have it both ways

Anonymous said...

there are so many people who are so nice, yet never set foot in any church and who never believed in God. Jenny, Shocked, Harmony,etc. subscribed strongly to the idea that they will go straight to heaven simply for being good. If that is true, religion and churches are irrelevant and should be dismantled.
I hope they will not email some contradicting ideas of faith and God and salvation.

Anonymous said...

First, Reader, please be kind and understanding; don’t be quick to interpret or pre-empt without presenting your reasons. I believe in God, my religion and the Church that represents it; I believe in Christ and the Holy Bible, but I don’t believe I should be the one to judge others as far as Eternal Life is concerned. Given the knowledge and my belief in God’s mercy and love, given the way Christ preached and gathered followers, given some passages in the Bible, given the divine examples of others, what I am pursuing to be justified is the definitive, human assessment and judgment as to who attains Eternal Salvation and the manner by which this is presented to anyone. I wish you dissected and scrutinize every bit of my article and comments. I was aiming for further discernment, sensitivity towards our brothers’ circumstances, therefore to extract whatever we can, in order to be more considerate, to find a common ground and to understand why the opinions of others lean towards human judgment in this area as translucent, if not opaque. I do not expect everyone to be in line with me, and even more precisely, do not intend to dismantle churches and religion or declare them irrelevant. I was expecting however, a more civil and educated exchange of views and opinions. I hope, Reader, you will have the patience to read the following (which was previously intended for Believer) and instead of concluding adversely and quite harshly, try to provide reasons for your opinions as well:

To Believer: Let me thank you for the way you presented your question or doubts. Here is my explanation and I am sure everyone has his/her own and I respect that.

As far as my comprehension and limitations can take me, I say, both are necessary for eternal salvation; not imperatively at the same time. The good in man has been challenged even in biblical times. How he triumphs over evil should remain for others to follow and should not expire with him when his time is up. God has equipped him with wisdom. How to utilize this wisdom for such purpose is up to him. Documented truths will not be enhanced and given importance for all their worth and purposes if left just to be read, nothing more. In time, good deeds may be forgotten and die and/or can change to a hideous course if somewhere no written words can support them or can be referred to for clarity of proper execution.

I believe, (and I don’t trifle with anyone’s opposite belief because I realize the need to understand our limitations), that spiritual, religious disciplines and doctrines and the words of the Holy Bible specifically, are essential for the good in man to be strengthened and perpetuated, from the generations of old to generations that follow; be these through direct belief in Christ, in the Holy Bible, or in good deeds. Good comes only from God; but we can not deny the fact that not everyone, in the line of legacies of men, from the beginning to the present, and into the future, had, has, and will have direct access or knowledge, in whole or in part, of God, Christ and the Bible. Somewhere, somehow, in the absence of these, good deeds have also been perpetuated to date and will be, by examples. These were embellished and will be, by modifications, unknowingly or not, due to the length of time that transpired and the varying languages used, perhaps, rendering new religions, but still emphasizing good work, the source of which is from God, should we really track it down. Do we suppress these good examples simply due to the absence of this direct access and knowledge? Do we diminish the value of God’s child because he is only doing good deeds and by human judgment not enough to attain Eternal Life?

Ecclesiasticus 39:21-41 “All the works of the Lord are exceeding good……for at his commandment favor is shown, and there is no diminishing of his salvation……There is no saying: What is this or what is that? For all things shall be sought in their time…….Good things were created for the good from the beginning, so for the wicked, good and evil things……Therefore from the beginning I was resolved, and I have meditated, and thought on these things and left them in writing. All the works of the Lord are good, and he will furnish every work in due time. It is not to be said: This is worse than that, for all shall be well approved in their time.”

What value do beliefs or faiths in religions or in words of the Holy Bible have without honestly practicing their sacred teachings? A belief without the corresponding expected action is akin to merely reading an instruction and saying, “It is correct”. With no application or execution of the instruction, there is no good result. Gospel of St. Luke, 6:46-49: “But why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord’, and do not practice the things I say. Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and acts upon them, I will show you what he is like. He is like a man building a house who dug deep and laid a foundation upon rock. And when a flood came, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it because it was founded on rock……..” And He went on with the opposite of this example.

There are passages in the Bible that are correlated, literally or not, but one may be encompassing or inclusive while the other, exclusive; this could be misconstrued to a point as something inconsistent or conflicting; but, really, it should be taken for our minds to go deeper and seek the spiritual message. In this regard, I believe we ought to go down to the more basic, common knowledge about the goodness of God and question ourselves what would represent and contradict such goodness. The beatitudes alone are worded to accommodate everyone doing good, with one starting as, “Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven” and with another, “Blessed are the clean of heart, for they shall see God”. Down to the core, very basic, no “but’s” or “if’s” and which anyone on this planet can do. We can act or not, be guided by the Holy Bible the way we understand its passages or we can choose not to, and simply take to heart God’s commandments; we can be guided by the examples of Christ or choose just to be plainly the source of all good attributes pleasing to God, whether we believe this or not; but only God judges for He alone knows the past, the present, the future and nothing is impossible with Him. Only He has no limitations. We do. I do

Anonymous said...

As a Christian, the New Testament takes precedence over the Old Testament. Jesus came to the world a revolutionary which changed the ancient customs and traditions mentioned in the Old Testament. Jesus, in doing so paid with His life.When Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one goes to the Father exceptthrough me", I took this as so many avid Christian Bible readers literally. I don't see how one can attempt to get around it and say that non-believers, atheists,good human beings theymay be who rejects Jesus can attain eternal salvation. It's not me, it is what the Bible said,unless one reads more to the New Testament with the ideal and best intentions, but unfortunately are not there there at all.

Anonymous said...

I believe in Jesus Christ.
I believe in God
And the Holy Spirit & some Saints.

I work hard to support a family. I secure the future of my children. I give to charity when I have extra money. I help the needy with my time & effort.

I am a law-abiding citizen & tries to live the Christian way. I have not wronged anybody.

My lifestyle allows me very limited time to read the Bible. I go to church when I have a free time but I pray almost everyday.

Will I burn in hell for not giving a 100% to my faith?

Anonymous said...

the gospels of St. Mark 10: 26-27, St. Luke 6:46-49 and The Beatitudes are in the Holy Bible, in the New Testament. they are very clear. why were they not addressed?

the bible is not complete with only the new testament. the new will not happen without he old. the old testament has its purpose. Christ would not ignore what the Father has laid out in the old. it was God the Father who gave His Son to save us and speak the truth on how to live in a way that could be easily understood. but the values of the old and the new testaments are the same. Christ still referred to God the Father in His preaching, example is when He said that “nothing is impossible with God”. the bible in its whole importance covers both Father and Son. the Son would not happen without the Father. to exclude one in referring to the bible doesn’t appear right. but your belief is your belief. just wanted to point out what have been missed.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Anonymous for pointing that out.
And for filling the gap.

Have a nice day.

Anonymous said...

I see a bit of shallowness and phoniness of those who said that good people even if they are atheists and unbelievers of any god
will go to heaven because they seem afraid to say the logical sequence of what they are trying to subscribe. That the logical consequence of their statements is that religion and/or faith, Bible all will not be necessary for eternal salvation, if it is true that good atheists and unbelievers will receive eternal salvation anyway.

Anonymous said...

i am the anonymous, the one before Annie’s comment of Dec. 03, 10:06 p.m., and the author of commentary made on Dec. 03, 2007 at 9:57 a.m.

the anonymous on Dec. 05, 2007 at 3:03 p.m. is a different person whose comments i do not agree with.

how he or she describes other people’s views i.e, “shallowness” and “phoniness” is not proper. to him or her, it is better to just say your views in a way that does not reflect your disgust and anger. the way you are trying to assert your religion or belief pretty much shows what to expect in your religion or belief, if not the kind of person you are-----just a reminder because i think the reflection of the words you use and the way you express them may not be something your religion may choose, unless i am wrong.

now, as to the “logical sequence” you question, my advice is for you to carefully read first, one sentence at a time, the posted related article, each comment, and my comment of Dec. 03, 2007, 9:57 a.m. put your own belief aside for a moment and comprehend the views of other people, open your mind. i think Jenny has given enough passages in the Holy Bible, Old and New to somehow back up her question on whether we should really be the ones judging people when it comes to Eternal Salvation and her belief that good work is not useless with God and Christ. this is already a gesture that upholds the importance of the Bible and religion. the point being made is that judgment for Eternal Salvation should be left to God, not humans, like you and me. nothing indicates in the article and commentaries that “religion and/or faith, Bible all will not be necessary for eternal salvation”, as you so concluded is what is being done. you are the one concluding and it is not the right conclusion. i have searched and read in the Holy Bible, the quotes written in the comments, and they are there, oh yeah! Keep your cool!

Anonymous said...

It has nothing to do about salvation per se but the seeming insencerity and apparent weakness of one'subscribing to an idea due to lack of conviction and possibly fear to follow through an obvious logical conclusion and to state strongly and without reservation that " because every good atheist and unbeliever will go to heaven therefore a church, a religion, a faith will not be necessary for salvation". You all are believers(it is good) because genuine atheists will say the above without batting an eye.

Anonymous said...

and again, an unproven conclusion if only to insist on one's selfishness about eternal life. it is time to break away from these assumptions which are reflective of one's minimal regard for God's love for everyone and His unmeasured mercy, both of which only He can bestow to those only He can judge as deserving. it's time to stop these exchange of views if only to give respect to the Most High.

Anonymous said...

It is out of deep respect to the Almighty to point out the wrong when some endorsed an idea that good people but godless who rejects the existence of an Almighty and Jesus Christ can go to heaven anyway.
The above also implicitly endorsed the irrelevance of faith and those that we hold sacred in life.
Your intent to be inclusively ideal is also an affront to believers.

Anonymous said...

The liberals' well intent to include in eternal salvation even those anti-faith, anti-etc. is extremely difficult even to read much less to accept.

Anonymous said...

I wish all people's souls can go to heaven too. but as a Christian I am mostly guided by the New Testament. I can not accept the idea that those who rejects the New Testament though very nice people will be rewarded with eternal salvation.That idea is too anti-faith.

Anonymous said...

I appreciate and commend Jenny and others whose purity of hearts and unlimited love for fellow human beings dare to be inclusive of all humanity in matters of Salvation.
What can be more Christian than that?

Anonymous said...

Just want to remind all those who refer to the Old Testament that God was not so kind to atheists and unbelievers when He totally destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and when deluged the world in the time of Noah. Remember?
That's why He sent His only Son to this world to straighten us out and to tell us that He is "the Way,the Truth and the Life. Nobody Goes to the Father except through Him.Remember,again?

Anonymous said...

How dare anyone to tell me that I can respect the Almighty if I accept the idea that the godless and atheists are fine and spiritually rewarding.

Anonymous said...

To reader, fencesitter no more & others who camp with these two highly-strung persons:

The point here is the good acts & intentions of everyone, Christians, Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Shintoists & not just atheists or those you call “non-believers”. Again, Good Acts & Intentions, God’s Goodness & Love not evil, not bad work .

You keep running after these performers of good who unfortunately through your eyes are undeserving because they are not like you. Why don’t you also cite & I hate to say this, Christians who are sinners, the adulterers, big time liars, those who steal from the poor or who do other thieveries, those who assault the young and old, etc. There are lots of them but you seem to hide them for your own good I assume?

Anonymous said...

By any chance, did it occur to you guys that maybe the reason why there are also atheists is because those who proclaim themselves exclusively inside God’s salvation are not practicing what they preach? Christians who are very “to themselves” and are quite judgmental have the tendency to do more harm to those who already lack the correct “push” to believe in God. They blow off any hope for them to experience God and His love. What examples are these kinds of Christians giving. Why not show good acts and intentions and so that those who you want to believe in God will see where these are coming from. Make things around them beautiful. Don’t scare them away. With all the hardships of life, it is still fortunate to have non-believers who care about doing good to others and things around them. Vice-versa, it is very unfortunate to have believers who don’t care at all about others but themselves and to top it more, actually do bad things. That they are full of foolish pride and could not even find the common good as a common ground is beyond reason. This is very hard to relay to others we wish to be in our religion. Think about what you are doing, not doing and saying.

Anonymous said...

"Lets be good" and "Thoughts" seem to champion the arrogance of the atheists and nonbelievers as saintly and those believers who humbly prostrate themselves before a supreme Being as evil.
All human beings commit sins including believers and atheists. The difference is that a believer humbly begs for forgiveness from God and the atheists arrogantly need not account to anyone because they are godless.

Anonymous said...

reader’s baseless assumptions are unbelievable and will be endless since obviously, there is no understanding of every sentence in comments that can not be within reader’s….…..never mind. be happy reader. i did not mean to make you angry……..should you continue, i bet you will again turn these sentences of mine into something ugly as is your pattern of understanding. i rest my case…..i will wait for another article to comment on…bye!

Anonymous said...

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born again when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man is born of water and of the spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee you most be born again.

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